gottagetagoat

OK, so I'm riding out of Condon, OR through the windmills. It was hot (106 deg.). It was beautiful. It was straight with hills and dips. I'm flying.

As I crested a hill and started down a dip, I got clocked doing 90 as I approached a LEO from behind (where did he come from?). Just before his lights flashed ahead, I'm thinking, huh, I wonder if that's a cop. F*ck me. I felt like such a tard.

This is the only ticket on my record...but it's not a small one. $430 and 35 mph over the speed limit.

When does someone in my shoes find it in their best interest to get a lawyer to help out? I'm thinking I should suck it up, pay, and lie low. What do you all think?

TipsyMcStagger

its quite unlikely that the cop had you on radar, if there is ANY other car near you it'll pick up that car. he probably guessed, and then you admitted breaking the law when he started asking you questions (to get you to admit to breaking the law)

on a motorcycle NEVER admit to speeding. i have been stopped several times, as fast as double the speed limit with no tickets, because they have no radar, and no proof. they start asking questions like "are you in a hurry?" "any excuse for going that fast?" etc... don't admit to it.

you'll get a lot of funny excuses from the cop too, i've had "your lucky day i left my ticket book at home" what kind of traffic cop leaves his ticket book at home? yea right...

wingding

The best time to get a lawyer would be right before you post a messages claiming just how guilty you are.

ScooterRash

Counsel by all means. Keep your record clean and you are much more apt to get free ride next time you get stopped.

Look on your ticket, if it's anything like Washington, there is a box that will have the means of clocking your speed (Radar, Pace, etc.).

SpeedGeek

In Oregon: Anything more than 30 MPH over posted limit, or more than 85 MPH (even on 65 MPH freeways) is grounds for reckless. That is my threshold for lawyering up and fighting it.

You don't want this ticket on your record. I would consider an attorney and spending the money to make it go away or get it reduced. However, those small counties are known as "the good ol' boy mentality" where the local popo has lunch with the judge (also his fishing/hunting buddy, brother in law, and neighbor). You could be screwed and might be better off using option two listed below. DON'T JUST SEND IN A CHECK. Exhaust all options to keep it off your record.

ALSO Since you have a clean driving record, you might be able to plea bargain or make a deal to get it DEFERRED. I've had a similar experience with a sheriff in one of those counties and I opted to pay the fine and have the citation deferred:(The judges words) "Put the ticket in the drawer here for 6 months. In 6 months send in your driving record without another citation and I'll tear it up." <-- good ol' boy thinking at its finest. I paid said fine and mailed in my driving record. It never showed on my record. Feel free to PM me for details etc.

nw_nick

Excellent advice!

About 30 minutes too late ...

Stringcheese

Well, I got cited yesterday too on the way back from the Klickitat ride between White Salmon and Stevenson. Already contacted an attorney this morning. The officer was asking questions like "why in such a hurry ?" and things like that. The only thing I said was "whatever you say officer". No admission of anything period. This is my first ticket since June of 1995, 13 years without a run in with an officer so I want to keep my record as clean as possible.

Ash

Why not just ride the speed limit? I know, silly idea, but it reduces the likelihood of getting pulled over for speeding.

KillermondoDude

Speed laws are for those who need adult supervision

Badbcky

Speed limit?



What's that?

starkmojo

A speed limit is that which prevents this:
http://www.goofball.com/photos/20060201201

"Swedish Police estimate a speed of ~250 KM/h (155mph) before the bike hit the slow moving car side-on at an intersection. At that speed, they predicted that the rider's reaction time (once the vehicle came into view) wasn't sufficient enough for him to even apply the brakes.

The car had two passengers and the bike rider was found INSIDE the car with them. The Volkswagen actually flipped over fromhe force of impact and landed 10 feet from where the collision took place. All three involved (two in car and rider) were killed instantly. "

The life you save might be someone else's too.

thomb

Hoo boy! "ride the speed limit" That's a good one.

shakazulu12

The last attorney I used is based in Vancouver and only charges $250 bucks. Less than the tickets cost. Plus I didn't have to show up for any of the court dates or anything. Just mailed him a copy of the ticket, a few months later I got a note in the mail saying the case was dismissed for "failure to properly document vehicle speed".

Badbcky

DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to be argumentative, just stating my point of view.

Speeding can mean anything from 26 mph in a 25 mph zone to the 155 mph scenario previously indicated.

I feel that that's an extreme example that isn't really applicable to the discussion. There is a world of difference between 85 and 155.

85 is considered a perfectly reasonable speed in many countries, for example. I personally disagree with the US's approach to driver safety, which seems to me to condone slow, inattentive driving over more rapid, attentive driving.

I would much rather share the road with an attentive, faster driver than an inattentive, slow one, in particular someone talking on their cell phone.

On average, I felt much safer riding in Switzerland, France, and Germany than I do here, because drivers are focused on where they are going and what's happening around them rather than on maintaining the speed limit while sipping a latte and chatting to their spouse.

For some reason, when the speed limit is low, people simply seem to get bored and become more and more inattentive. Maybe that's not the way it should be, but my observations are that that is the way it is.

I tend to speed systematically because honestly, I've been advised that in most cases speeding by a certain amount is safer. (Here I cite the Idiot's Guide to Motorcycling)

Just my two cents.

Reb

shakazulu12

There really is no speeding if you follow "The Golden Rule",

Always drive/ride at a speed that is safe for the given road/conditions. For a track guy mounted on a GSXR that may be a substantially different speed than grandma driving a Buick with the headlights busted out.

When I'm off riding outside of traffic on my bike, I stick to whatever speed I feel comfortable with. There are many roads that I could go a lot faster on that I don't, simply because they have driveways (skyline between Thompson and Cornelius pass would be an example).

I have been told by attorney's this is a good response if you are pulled over and the officer asks how fast you were going, basically "at a speed safe for the given road and conditions". That way you aren't admitting to speeding, nor are you lying to the officer about how fast you were going. Maybe I should ask if thats the case in the ask an leo forum.

Badbcky

I concur.

TipsyMcStagger

people in other countries don't do this?

news to me

rookie

MichelinMan

Fight. Every. Ticket.

You should have called a lawyer the day you got the ticket.

rookie

:m fclap:

RumpigCBR

At a speed safe for the given road and the conditions...

I like it.

Transported

I was caught out in that area this spring. The police (stopped twice, as a matter of fact) did have radar and were pretty darn accurate in what they picked up. In both cases I was more than 20 mph over the limit. In both cases, the officers (young, bike riders themselves) gave me a warning (even with an expired license). In both cases, I didn't argue. When asked why so fast, I said I was just enjoying their great roads. (Didn't hurt to have a female along riding her own Italian bike, I'm sure.)

Ash, you "drive" a cruiser. Of course you don't understand speeding.

Oh, and while you can find a lot of roads in that area without LEOs, don't be so stupid as to pick the longest, straightest, most traveled stretches to do speed runs. Those are the only places I saw cops the entire time going through Central and Eastern Oregon (besides inside the sign markers indicating congestion or reduced speed zones, i.e., towns). Get into the twisty canyons and it's unlikely you're going to get a police presence. I do my speed runs in isolated valleys where I can see any car (or deer) forward and aft for miles.

UhOh

discussed single ticket strategy with a WA assistant prosecutor 2 years ago (he was a M/C rider).
This guy suggested, if going in with a clean record, to save WA's once every 7 yr deferral option for any second ticket,
and either pay or argue the first.

His reason was that no insurance co. would likely adjust rates based on a single ticket,
and that ticket goes away after 3 yrs anyway.

gottagetagoat

Thanks for all the replies!
I never thought it would prompt so much discussion.

Regarding admitting to speeding on the forum, I suppose it's a bit naive, but I figured the local officials (LEO/Prosecutor/Judge) would have better things to do with their time than lurk on forums for "evidence".
Still, I guess I could have been more discreet.

Regarding the ticket details, the infraction is just speeding (VBR)...he didn't get me for reckless. He checked the box for "Radar" (and no, there were no cars behind me, so if he locked on to anyone, it was me). Lord knows his rig had a whole bunch of toys when you got a close look. They must be making some serious money from guys like me.

I will indeed contact a lawyer. Thanks to those who sent me contact info.

Gotta admit, at $430 I'm a bit spooked to ride at anything beyond posted limit for now (OK, 5-10 mph above feels fine). Good thing I ride a dual sport. There's plenty of off-roads to explore!

Badbcky

Talk on their cell phones? No, you'd have to be stupid, the consequences in most Western European countries for talking on your phone without using a hands-free device are REALLY serious, like losing your license or being held as at-fault for ANY accident you get into.

It's treated almost as harshly as driving drunk.

As for inattentive driving, I FEEL that it's less common in Europe, just in terms of how often, as a biker, I've been cut off by car drivers and similar situations like that. But I don't have stats or facts on it. Aggressive driving, lots of that, though.

Things could have changed in the few years since I moved away, or be very different in the countries I haven't been to much (Spain, British Isles, Central Europe), but those are my impressions.

starkmojo

Reb- Do I speed? OC I do- me and 98% of the US population. I used that example of what you can do to someone else in an accident. Too often we say "I am free to kill myself" That is a dramatic example of what a bike can do to kill someone else, and a reminder that roadways are shared spaces and we need to drive in a way that takes that into account- even if the majority of US drivers do not.

The thing is, I would love to go to Germany and get on the Autobahn.. LOVE IT... because there is a road built for that kind of driving. I am also familiar with the are where the OP was pulled over, and there is no way I would ever do 85 MPH on that kind of road in any vehicle.

Firstly, unless it is a controlled access highway, anyone could be on the road- a hitch-hiker, bicyclist, etc. What do you think would happen to the OP n Germany if he was tagged doing half again the posted speed?

Secondly, one of the huge dangers of American Roads is that we do not control the condition of the vehicles on them. You know that in Germany vehicles go through strict inspections as they go in the EU. In the Uk its call MOT, but they are basicly all the same- half of the American cars couldn't pass them, more if you are looking at cars ten years old or more. You are more than likely to come across a car either broken down in the middle of the road, or going ten MPH with its flashers on limping home. It also means that you could end up coming around a corner and find a truck muffler in the road.

Thirdly you are not dealing with European drivers- you are dealing with American Drivers. Comparing driving in Europe to driving in the US has some apples and oranges aspects to it in this regard.

Fourth- European roads are built with the expectation of high speeds. This effects everything from specs to materials to how often they get resurfaced. I work in construction QA and I recently had the pleasure of working with a foreman who had started as a Seebee and built roads and runways all over the world. he said that building a secondary road in Germany is more like building a runway than an American Highway- and he had done both. He had a huge respect for German roadwork, saying that if American roads were built to the same sped that 1000s of lives and Billions of dollars in waste would be saved every year. Once again European Apples to American Oranges.

Fifth there is a lot of wildlife in that area- imagine hitting a coyote at 85 MPH. Coyotes don't always look before crossing the road.

Lastly while 85 is considered reasonable in some countries (like Montana for example), it is not here- thus the 485$ ticket. This also means that other roadway users are not expecting that. Some one coming on the road is not going to be looking for someone doing half again the speed limit.

So yes I would love to do 85, and as soon as we have decent roads, rigorous enforcement of DUI laws, strict driver training, adequate roads, Ill be on it. But I still won't drive to fast for conditions, and in my mind 85 on a street where there could be a pedestrian is not safe or reasonable.

... I also believe in the do the crime do the time. Last time I was pulled over I put the check in the mail. I was speeding, I broke the law, I paid the ticket. So my opinion is he should man up and pay the ticket. Or perhaps go to court and ask tha they lower it due to his clean record and offer to take a safe driving course.