GixxerPete

Sure we can say who the best is, and it was demonstrated in spades at Laguna. The only people who don't get it are Ducati/Stoner fanbois who are skewed from reality and lack knowledge of racing history. One season of runaway wins on a blatantly faster bike do not make one a great rider.

PeteN95

Is the Ducati all new this year? I didn't think so. I think if anyone, last years Ducati was probably designed for Capirossi, who was the more experienced and successful rider on that team at the begining of last year?

I do agree that Rossi verified his greatness with his ride at Laguna, but that is partly because he beat another great rider.

the chemist

It was ONE race! He isn't hands down the best in the class right now. There ISN'T a person who is! The only people who think so are people blinded by their homo erotic passion for Valentino. Where was Danny at Laguna? Maybe he would have dominated like has before? What if Lorenzo hadn't crashed? They're all great riders, who weren't in the mix at Laguna...but have proven they are really good riders. So, to say Rossi dominated Laguana is stupid...half his competition wasn't there. I think what shows the level of talent, is that we had 4 winners in the first 4 races.

I'm not debating he WAS the best. So you're argument about LOOK BACK IN TIME BLAH BLAH BLAH is worthless. He was the best, I have problem admitting it. Michael Jordan was the best at his time too...but he isn't anymore. He is not as dominate as he once was. If you disagree, look at his finishes/qualys over the last 2 or 3 years...people fade. Im not saying he HAS faded...but maybe he's starting to.

tophyr

Nah, that's just how Pedrosa learned how to pass. is running someone off the track.

tophyr

If the passes were so out there at the beginning of the race... Casey could've just let Rossi have first! You can't battle with someone for the lead and then piss and moan when that someone fights back for it!

Bwaaaahaha

Difference between me an Casey, (aside from the obvious) is that I don't cry about it when the racing gets vicious.. just ask snake here on PNWR or Justin Watkins down in OMRRA.

GixxerPete

You've got that backwards, the only people who don't acknowledge Rossi as the GOAT are either Stoner fanbois who think having by far the fastest bike on the grid makes one a great rider, or are completely ignorant about GP racing history, and/or have only been watching MotoGP for the last year and a half and think Stoner's one season on a blatantly dominant bike somehow qualifies him for GOAT status.

And again, if you really understood racing, you'd realize what a fantastic race Rossi ran, against an obviously faster bike. For example, Mat Mladin sure sees it, but you don't? Are you going to say Mladin was blinded by homo erotic passion for Rossi too? I think not. I think that is it is you blinded by homo erotic passion for Stoner.

Last time I checked, Micheal Jordan doesn't play basketball anymore, and hasn't for years. Rossi is currently leading the championship in MotoGP, so your analogy fails miserably.

Look back over the last couple three years? Ok... in 2005 Rossi won the championship. In 2006 IIRC Rossi had two mechanical DNF's and was taken out in one race and was still finished 2nd in the championship. In 2007, Stoner's Ducati was so blatantly faster than anything on the grid he had runaway victories at most races... that was the bike, not the rider. Ducati nailed it on 800 while everyone else struggled. And Bridgestone tires were far superior to Michelins Rossi was still on at the time. Rossi ends up third in points. And of course in 2008 Rossi is currently leading the championship.

So again, anyone who really thinks Rossi is "fading" doesn't know WTF they're talking about. Since when do people that are "fading" still win races and lead championships? Only in a Stoner/Ducati fairy land.

Ciao998

Rossi's not the goat though. Giacomo Agostini is..............

In the end it's all opinion. And those who say Stoner or Rossi sucks are.................well............Morons:thefing e:

eurospeed

the chemist

.


Im not debating Rossi was/is great. The competition is just too stiff to say he is currently the best rider out there...for sure.

YellowAnatra

Yeah, I am new this year to Devote racing following, and I am quite surprised at all the fucking drama from the lips of the actual racers and the fans. It's like the obsessiveness of Euro soccer, with allot of "As the world turns"!!

wheezl

Motosports are huge here. In a way not even hardcore fans in the USA can grasp. Three major Italian spectator sports are Soccer, MotoGP, and Formula 1.

Formula 1 is more popular in general but MotoGP (and to a lesser extent Superbike) is probably more popular in Italy and Spain which are the world capitols of Motorcycling. If you think it's bad online, you should see the local sports rags which really crank the drama up another notch. (think: New York Post with the Mets and Yankees and you are halfway there). Heck a few weeks ago some gossip rag for ladies aparently had spy pics of Valentino making out with some hot topless chick on a boat.

EricG

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2008...ca+2008+battle

Motogp just put out a free video of all the passes

GixxerPete

Was there any mention of impending sanctions for said passes?

GixxerPete

Most of the drama is caused by people who are uneducated on how racing and race teams actually work, have only been following GP racing for the last year or so, and think having a bike that's blatantly faster than anything else on the grid makes one a great rider.

JesseJ

Rossi for life.

dragracer1951

I'm mostly a Rossi fan. But I cheered Stoner in two fiddies and last year. He's fast.
Thing is, he ain't on the same PLANET as Rossi.
He lacks the racecraft. He lacks the experience. He lacks the maturity in the sport.
I think Vale might be in the kids head now. We'll see in a couple of weeks if Vale's gotten under Casey's skin.
We need another Sete or Max. I think we've found one...
Can Vale break him? You bet!

Needragger

"fan" derived from the word fanatic.

Seems we have Ducati/Stoner fans that would like nothing better than to sit upon a ducati naked and masturbate to pictures of Stoner...
Rossi fans who would like to bend over naked in front of him...
Nicky fans that just want to marry him...
and Pedrosa anti-fans that want to lob small yield nuclear devices his direction.

If I'm a fan of anything it is racing in general and that of a good race regardless of who wins. I am not a fan of Rossi, Stoner, Nicky, Peddy boy or anyone else.

First Ducati and Stoner with a little Cap, Baylis thrown in: Ducati has the most sophisticated and capable electronics package in the paddock. Does that make it a better bike? Maybe. The Ducati had a big HP advantage last year (just watch the Qatar race) and still has a slight edge. Does that make it the fastest bike at a race? Maybe.

First electronics. Traction control, launch control, wheelie control, pit speed control, engine back torque control, data logging with over 250 channels available etc. The technological jump from 990s to 800s was giant. Computers double in ability every 18 months. MotoGP took a much larger leap than that from the 990s to 800s and Ducati was very very on top of its game. Running a screamer motor in a field of big bang engines and having the electronics to control such a beast is a coup de gras for '07 and it ain't bad for '08. Ducati runs a secondary ECU (no one else reportedly does) to assist with its traction control, along with GPS, gyros and utilizes Dorna's own split time (4 per track) sensors to help determine exactly where on the track the bike is, lean angle, etc.. They could (can?) tune the bike for EACH CORNER of a track. Ducati's traction control is rumored to only work if the throttle is opened fully. Watched one race where Stoner opened the throttle fully mid corner, full lean and he ran a bit wide kicked over onto the rumble strips...bike got a LITTLE squirrely...he never backed out of it and the bike dropped back in line and it never missed a beat. THAT is sophisticated traction control, period. That doesn't take away from Stoner's ability to fight natural instinct and trust the bike, he has gotten there while no one else has been able to, that is talent with a caitol T in itself. The most important corners on a track are the ones leading to the longest straights. If you and/or your bike can start applying throttle in those corners earlier than your competition your advantage is BIG. Stoner was very visibly able to get on the throttle significantly earlier than anyone else in turn 10 at Laguna (and earlier in 11 as well, just not so much so). Negate tires from the picture as others had Bridges and take into the fact the Ducati is a screamer motor and the depth of talent in the top 5 MotoGP field and you cannot sit there and type that electronics ain't got nothing to do with it. If you say so then you are against about every dang expert on MotoGP racing in the paddock. Colin Edwards said when he was on the Aprilia Cube that the most important guy on your team is your electronics (programmer) guy. The Cube at the time had the most electronics due to its Formula 1 trickle down motor (1st to have pneumatic valves etc.). It is very true on the 800s, at least for some and VERY true for the Ducati. Good for them.

In '06 Cap would have been a threat for the championship on the 990 if he wouldn't have been hurt (look at the results) so Ducati had it together with the last 990 as well. He did not mesh with the 800 Ducati as he was still probably in 990 mode. I think Baylis could have won a championship in '07 if the 990s remained. He was on fire in WSBK in '06 and I think his drive could have possibly taken him there in '07 in MotoGP. Stoner has done an amazing job of adapting to the '07 bike and helping to develop and refine the '08 bike. He had a tough time (for him) through the first 6 races of this season. He stated that they did find something in the "electronics" after Mugello and BANG, he wins 4 in a row and was clearly running much faster lap times in Laguna. Stoner has meshed with the Ducati very well. It is definately a "Man-Moment-Machine" thing going on here. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Stoner is a talented rider in the caliber of the top 3 it is fair to say.

Pedrosa...poor little Peddy. His weight (and size) alone is a huge advantage (something like 25lbs lighter than Rossi and physically smaller as well...everyone has seen the '07 Honda with Nicky on it. Sure, it wasn't built for little Peddy). He is a great 250 style rider and therefore has adapted well to the 800s. Not much of a scrapper that we have seen as yet but can clear out if in front. Yes he is stone faced, still has a bit of an ego as far as anyone can tell but, and oh my, he took poor little Nicky out last year (yes, stupid move). All said, he gets paid millions to do stuff we would pay in blood to do. Ride a MotoGP bike for a living and be a threat for a world championship and he may very well win one or two before he is said and done. He is a talented rider in the caliber of the top 3.

Nicky should have left Honda after he won the championship in '06. The writing was all over the wall. If someone would build a bike to suit him, he would be a continder. It is unfair to say Nicky isn't a talented racer and does not belong in MotoGP. Maybe Ducati will be able to tune the electronics of the bike to suit him. I would like to see them try. He is a top 5 in this field with the right bike.

Yes, Ago was great. Rossi actually has a chance to beat his record. Just SAYING that in this day and age is phenomenal. Has Rossi faded? Is he still the best, the fastest? Looking at races, results, bike and tire troubles, etc. it is tough to say. As far as early season results, we must remember that the Yamaha was designed originally around the Michelin tire. The first four races were pretty tough for Rossi to the point that they ran our of adjustment on some things on the bike and had to get new parts. To give Stoner a valid excuse for his first 6 races and not acknowledge Rossi's difficulties is foolish and plain unfari. Rossi's development skills cannot be taken lightly as he climbed aboard a Yamaha after coming off the unbeatable Honda, took it strengths and enhanced them and minimized its weaknesses and beat Honda at THEIR own game. Rossi is doing a pretty good job within the limits of Yamaha's own willingness and abilities to change and adapt their engineering. Will he be able to ride and develop the Yamaha to the point of keeping Stoner at bay? It will be interesting to see. It is very easy to say Rossi is a top 3 rider and perhaps a top 5 of all time...it is too early to call Stoner that, time may tell.

"It is not always the fastest bike that wins the race." Techniques of Motor Cycle Road Racing" by Kenny Roberts. I'll go further to say that the fastest rider does not always win the race. Taking luck and chance out of the equation (which always plays a part), it is the racer with the best plan and the best execution of that plan....i.e., the best RACER, not the fastest RIDER. Sometimes the fastest rider does win the race reguardless if he is the best RACER, IF his bike is that much better. If he had the best plan and his speed was too much for even the best racer to do anything about.

If you disagree with Rossi's race plan and execution of that plan at Laguna then maybe you wouldn't like a three time world champion out in front purposely trying to slow the race (him and a young racing phenom in second) down enough so the third place rider could pass the number two guy so he could win the championship (didn't work for the King). Or maybe a Formula 1 legend literally CRASHING into his competition at a race to prevent either one of them from getting points so he would win the championship. Extremes from one end to the other true but, many things have been done quite a bit dirty and some just very strategic in world class racing. And yes, some get away with it because of who they are. Don't discount Rossi's rock star status but, then again, don't discount all the Ducati fans sitting on their bikes right now naked (or wishing they had one to).

The race in Laguna was very good, very aggressive and...clean. Watch some old stuff from the 80s and 90s or the two last two WSBK races of '02 between Colin and Baylis or the race in '06 between Nicky and Colin at Assen. Seems that was good clean racing as well. Stoner's plan was to get out front and GOOOOOOO!!!! Rossi's plan was to attack and attack again, as necessary, on the brakes and into the corners where he had an advantage. Stoner did not adapt to the situation. He could have just hung with Rossi and set him up on the last turn of the last lap but he just could not wait. It was a matter of time before Stoner made the mistake that was pretty plain to see. I knew Rossi probably would not be the one to make the mistake. Rossi was not faster...Rossi was the better RACER at Laguna.

Electronics have minimized or negated some skills that were required to ride the 500s and the 990s. To not see that is to be almost an absolute idiot to the sport. BUT, it has also has made a few other skills more important or at least shifted the skills which need be applied. When, all of a sudden, you have a group of riders move up from 250s and are immediately up to speed...you cannot say things have not changed. Perhaps it is for the good? Dunno. The 800s with all the electronics are fast 250s now (even the 250s are getting traction control, not all of the teams...Aprilia for sure, KTM no...but its happening).

Rossi could very well be the best RACER of all time. He may not be the fastest due to many reasons, bike, tires, or his "faded" skills, whatever. BUT....well, put it this way. Put all the MotoGP boys on identical Red Bull 125s, put them on the track one at a time. Peddy boy will probably be fastest. Put them all in a race together it would be a dog fight and with weight and size being such a huge factor, little Peddy boy may win the most although Rossi did win a world championship in 125 soooooo?????. Put them on identical 990s? Rossi would win a large majority of the time although Stoner would adapt well and be better than Peddy boy. Put them on identical 800s with equivalent electronics, Peddy would prob be the fastest in timed practice but, I fully believe Rossi could pull off the win the majority of the time. He wouldn't win all the time but, because he is the better RACER he would win the majority of the time. To say his skills have faded some maybe true and if it is, his faded skills are at least the equivalent of a very deep talent pool. That in itself could make him the GOAT of the top class of motorcycle roadracing. Stoner has yet to prove himself. When he gets, oh, a half dozen world championships in three different classes, with multiple manufacturers, on different machine configurations (500, 990, 800?), have over 90 wins in Grand Prix, will likely over take Agostini in total premier class wins this year... and eventually mabe in total wins, THEN we can start talking about being a better RACER than Rossi. Or, at least get some more time in the 800s and prove himself over time there. Is he faster? On many many occasions in the last two years he has been, but, that doesn't make him the best.

The rest of the season may be very very good (hope hope hope). It is rumored that privately Rossi is very angry at the fact that Stoner said that the racing was dirty. Rossi is taking this personally. Only two other racers have ever made it personal with Rossi...Sete and Biaggi. Rossi is batting 2-0 when it becomes personal. He has the ability to get under the skin, so to speak, of his competition. Stoner proved in ONE race that he can't take the pressure of a dog fight from Rossi. His ability as a racer will be tested if Rossi can bring the fight to him again. If Stoner gets in front and clears out, good for him. If Peddy boy can do it, fine...same for Rossi or Nicky. I would much rather a knock down, drag out battle to the end and cheer and drink a bunch of beer to the winner and the rest of the RACERS who made it a good BATTLE...REGARDLESS OF WHO WINS!

Rossi the GOAT of Grand Prix motorcycle racing? Good chance he may prove to be. Stoner? He has got a long way to go and, beating Rossi in itself does not do it. He will have to prove his metal and that takes time (and more races like Laguna where he WINS). Just my humble, un-biased by masturbation, opinion.

jj

Ciao998

I think any realist would agree with your thought Jeff

Good read, thanks!!

dragracer1951

^^^
Good read indeed.
I hope the rest of this season is close fought racing.
I'm still hoping rossi makes it personal with stoner. I do so love a good thrashing...

GixxerPete

Well said.

tophyr

Perfectly said.

xrdotimcr

I agree with all of that. The humor was placed perfectly as well.

CCWC

I have a $100 with 1:1 odds that says Stoner will not win the championship this year. What do you say? If you are so confident in Stoner, you won't need the 2:1 odds to take the bet. Think about it.

P.S. To all the Stoner fans, this wager is only available to Duane. Rossi's racing is strong right now. If you decide to take my wager we can discuss the logistics of how the winner will get payed.

Cody